Evaluating Ohio State’s recruiting wins and losses, plus its most important remaining targets: Buckeye Talk podcast (2024)

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Ohio State heads into fall camp with the nation’s top recruiting class, having landed many of those members over the past two months.

OSU has once again used June to host the bulk of its official visits and found success because of it. On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means and Andrew Gillis discuss some of those wins, plus some of the losses among the 33 undecided players who took an official visit in June. Then they look ahead to what’s next for a class close to being full.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:13.19)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I am Stephen Means. That’s Andrew Gillis. And it’s time for some recruiting ahead of fall camp starting on Thursday. Get the text 614 -350 -3315. This is probably the last time we’ll do a big recruiting pod between now and the start of the season. Week one as Ohio State prepares to play Akron.

to start off the 2024 season. Like I said, get the text, 614 -350 -315. There’s plenty of things still going on in the recruiting space, some of which we’re gonna get into on this pod. Fall camp starts on Thursday. Recruiting starts every day that you wake up and go to sleep because recruiting never stops. So, but guys, the number one class in the country, 24.

commits still holding on to that spot through what is essentially going to be the summer with some big -time recruits still out there I want to look back and you at the official visit season and what essentially is commit season right after that which is where you saw some of these wins Ohio State had 33 visitors who were either not committed to Ohio State or Committed elsewhere in June, right?

That’s because obviously Tavon Sinclair coming on an official visit. Well, it’s cool. I do tear every time every weekend. Who cares? It matters, but it’s like he’s not going anywhere. So this doesn’t include Devin Sanchez, Nahim Alford, Tavon Sinclair, Carter Lowe, guys who were committed before him. It’s the 33 guys who were uncommitted or at least were committed somewhere else in Ohio State was trying to flip them when they came to visit between May 31st and June 21st. Those were the weekends of visitors.

If I told you that number, how many of those guys should Ohio State have won? By

Andrew (01:57.112)

Are you including the kids who were committed? Like are you including the kids who committed that they like hung on

Stephen Means (02:05.19)

No, this is just the 33 people who were uncommitted or committed elsewhere. And I’ll say this 26 have already picked a school. let’s we can go from that list of those 26. How many wins should Ohio State have had realistic?

Andrew (02:06.19)

Okay. the 30, the 30.

Andrew (02:20.366)

The 33, I mean, obviously it depends on the class size, you know, year to year, but of that 33, I think you’re probably, probably hoping for 10 to 12. I think 10 to 12 is probably a solid number.

Stephen Means (02:35.654)

Okay, yeah, 12, they got 12, 12 wins and 14 losses. There are still six who are undecided. And then there’s one who’s a possible in terms of he’s already committed somewhere else and Ohio State’s trying to flip him, but they did it. He came knowing that that was gonna be a long road. The wins from May 31st, you got Riley Pettigon, the five -star linebacker out of Texas. You got Bo Jackson, the four -star running back out of your own backyard. So only two.

Andrew (02:37.986)

There it is.

Stephen Means (03:00.44)

of eight wins in the first weekend. The losses that weekend were Declorean Moore, who ended up at Oregon, Vernal Brown, who ended up staying home at Florida, where I think his father is on the staff, and at least in the recruiting space maybe. Okay. Okay, so yeah. Cool, so like him not going to Florida would have been weird.

Andrew (03:11.554)

His dad played there, he’s now the manager for Anthony Richardson. There’s a lot of tie -ins, yeah.

Stephen Means (03:19.278)

Justin Hill, Ohio four star goes to Alabama. Daylon McCutcheon, the Texas wide receiver, the four star recruit goes to Florida State. Henry Fanucu, the four star interior offensive lineman from Texas goes to Missouri. And then Kaden Strayhorn, the interior offensive lineman from Florida, the three star recruit goes to Michigan. Well, Kaden Strayhorn, he goes to IMG, believe, so he might not actually be from Florida. Week two, June 7th, there

11 people who were either uncommitted or committed elsewhere by the time they came to Ohio State for that visit three wins three losses one undecided the wins four star for him Delaine for star safety four star wide receiver Quincy Porter and Four star defensive lineman Trajan Odom the losses four star edge rusher Damien Shanklin was the LSU

four star offensive tackle Jackson Lloyd picks Alabama, three star interior offensive lineman from Georgia. Andrew Stargale goes to UCF while Javon McFadden, the interior offensive lineman and the three star recruit from Maryland. He is still undecided. Following weekend jumps up a little bit, four wins, two losses, still four undecided. So this is still the one that’s up in the air of this group. Josh Petty, the five star recruit from Georgia to offensive tackle. Nathaniel Owusu -Botang, who’s at IMG. I don’t think he’s from Florida either.

He’s still undecided also Philip Bell the four -star wide receiver from California still undecided in them four -star safety from Virginia Messiah DeLome He is still undecided the winds London Merritt the defensive lineman from Florida who goes IMG So again might not actually be from Florida the four -star recruit picks Ohio State four -star defensive lineman from Pennsylvania Maxwell Roy picks Ohio State for three star running back Isaiah West also from Pennsylvania picks Ohio State and four -star

defensive lineman from Florida, Jaques Carter, who came in the middle of the week, who came the June, he actually came June 18th. He picks Ohio State as well. Still on the board.

Stephen Means (05:16.76)

as well, excuse me, Isaiah Gibson from Florida, the four star edge rusher who’s committed to Georgia right now. He’s still, maybe he stays at Georgia, maybe he doesn’t. The losses, Brandon Finney, the four star athlete. picks Oregon, four star edge rusher Marion Dye picks Tennessee and then four star Alabama offensive tackle, Micah DeBose who has some Cleveland ties, I believe, decides to stay down in Alabama and go to the Crimson Tide. And then the big fish weekend.

The undecideds, one undecided and one possible, but you’ve got three wins and you’ve got three losses so far. The wins are Brody Lennon, the four star tight end from Ohio.

Jake Cook, the three -star interior offensive lineman from Westerville North picks Ohio State as well. And then Zion Grady, the edge rusher from Alabama, four -star recruit picks Ohio State. The losses, Dorian Brew, who’s not a four -star by the way, four -star cornerback from Texas, also by way of Ohio, he picks Oregon. Jordan Davison, the four -star running back from California picks Oregon. Jayden Harmon, the four -star linebacker from Georgia picks Alabama. And then you’ve got Malik Autry, who’s the one possible.

He’s the four -star defensive lineman out of Alabama currently committed to Auburn, Ohio State is actively trying to flip him knowing that might be a long -term thing So let’s check it out him on signing day and then the biggest fish of all biggest fish both literally in terms of recruiting status But also in actual physical status David Sanders the five -star offensive tackle from North Carolina

who I believe is coming off a visit to Nebraska this past weekend has also visited Tennessee as of late. Still in the running there, Tennessee, Georgia, Nebraska, and Ohio State. His decision is coming up here very soon. We’ll get into all those guys, but.

Stephen Means (06:56.038)

12 wins out of 33 people who visited Andrew that’s good, right? That’s a that’s quality when you’re talking about half of your wins came after Ohio State’s month of official visits is where that’s been kind of where Ohio State’s made its bread or from but from official visits

Andrew (07:16.846)

Yeah, you look at the class and or the 25 class and kind of maybe where things are. We started looking at this list and it sounds like there are more losses than there are. This is going to sound more negative than it is intended to be because that’s how math works. not going to get, if you have 33 official visitors, you’re not going to get 27 of them, right? You’re not going to miss out on the guys. And it’s one of those things where you’re not going to miss out on the guys and be like, it’s fine that we missed

you know, there are certain players that you’re maybe more okay with missing on. I think of a guy like you mentioned him, Nathaniel Owusu -Botang. Ohio State has three linebackers in his class now. That’s somebody you’re okay with missing on. you know, not nothing to say of him. I mean, he’s a really good football player and he might end up at Michigan. so that’s something to keep note of. He’s a top 75 prospect, really good football player. State just got somebody else.

Stephen Means (07:59.472)

Yep.

Andrew (08:14.338)

You know, there are things that you can look at that and say, well, they didn’t get all the majority of these kids. There were kids that Ohio State wanted that, you know, went elsewhere. But I think that this is fair. I mean, it’s recruiting. It’s, know, you could talk about Ohio State and say they’re Ohio State. They should be getting all these kids. Well, Georgia and Alabama and Oregon and all these other schools, Tennessee and all these other schools are looking at going, we’re the Bulldogs, we’re the Crimson Tide, we’re the Ducks, we’re whatever.

we should also be getting these kids, right? You we should also be landing some of these top players. So, you know, it’s a little bit like rooting for an actual game when you’re watching recruiting. You’re going to lose more than you’re going to win. You’re not going to win the big prize more than you’re going to win it. But I think when you map this out, yeah, the wins are big. The losses feel big, but you know, sometimes that’s just the way that the cookie crumbles, I guess.

Stephen Means (09:11.14)

I think getting a third of your official visitors who were still undecided when they came to your campus in June, getting a third of those guys by the end of July is pretty good, especially when you’re...

Andrew (09:21.334)

And not all official visits are created equal, right? Some official visits, we talked about this at the beginning, Steven, I don’t know if you remember this, was, I think it was like mid April or right after the spring game we did this, or maybe a little bit later. Is it better to have the first visit? Is it better to have the last visit? Because not every kid is coming in with an open mind. Some kids are coming in committed to other schools. Some kids are coming in committed to Ohio State and they’re looking to reaffirm their commitment. Some kids are leaning Ohio State. Some kids are leaning other schools.

So, you know, when you add in all of those variables, that’s kind of where you have to look at this, right? You know, there might be a kid like, you know, I’m trying to think here and go through the list, like a Kaden Strayhorn. He visited that first weekend, you know, the interior offensive lineman, you know, maybe his head’s leaning somewhere else and the visit just doesn’t go maybe the way that you want, or it doesn’t go the way that he wanted,

however it works out and it just, doesn’t go that way. So not all official visits are created equal. think that that is important to note too, that, you know, yeah, you know, a third of your official visits is really good. And then you also got to, you know, you also got to consider you’re trying to get a kid that maybe has you fourth on his list and maybe even an official visit only leads you to first. And we’ve said this on this spot before, if you’re not leading after an official visit or an unofficial visit, if you’re not, you

in the number one spot, odds are you’re not getting that kid. So I think that that is important to remember too, is that some of these kids come in here and not all of them have, you know, scarlet and gray colored glasses on at the front. Sometimes you got to give them those scarlet and gray colored glasses. And sometimes you got to make them see it. And sometimes they’re just, know, Ohio State’s not for them. And that’s okay.

Stephen Means (11:06.118)

So the thing I wanna do is I wanna break down the ones that matter the most here in terms of wins and losses. So let’s start with the wins first, because you always start positive. What’s the most impactful win of this group of official visitors who has committed to Ohio State? The one that probably had the most oomph behind it when it happened.

Andrew (11:26.912)

Yeah, so there’s a couple different answers here. And again, I know it’s funny to talk about the wins first after I just said this, but, I think sometimes it’s easier to pick from the losses just because there’s more of them. But with the wins, the number one thing for me, the number one player to commit was Zion Grady. You land a defensive end out of Enterprise, Alabama, and he is now your second player out of the state of Alabama. Like,

This is a guy who he committed on June 24th. He visits Florida State and Auburn and Tennessee and Ohio State and Miami was in there, I think. And by the way, Jason Taylor’s recruiting him to go to Miami. That’s a really interesting thing that you pull out of that official visit weekend, right? So you pull a really good player out of the state of Alabama just a few days after his OV.

I mean, when you map out his recruitment, yeah, really, really, really impressive that they were able to do this because again, we talked about this with Naheem Offord where it’s like, hey, here’s what this commitment means for the future. Here’s what this means for the future. Well, this kid was committed to Alabama in November. He decommitted in January. Nick Saban left.

I don’t know if you’re aware of that. Nick Saban is no longer the coach. So he decommits right after that. But he did visit Alabama after that. Alabama, like they didn’t completely fall off the table. You know, I know Georgia was in the mix for a little while as well. He took an OV to Georgia. This is a really good football player that had a lot of Southern interests and you were able to pull him from the state of Alabama. And I think, you know, from a from a kind of what it means perspective, that’s that’s really big from a talent perspective.

This guy’s really good. He’s the number 80 overall player in the class. He’s the number seven edge rusher. I mean, you map out where this defensive line class is at and kind of was at at the time. You didn’t have Maxwell Roy. You didn’t have Trajan Odom. You didn’t have Jarques Carter. You didn’t have some of these defensive linemen that you got over these next two, three, four weeks, right? Some of those guys were not on board. And if you were going to add

Andrew (13:57.774)

Edgerushers probably the area because you have Zaheer Mathis who’s you know the big kid out of Philly 6 ‘6 number 62 overall prospect in the class. Zaheer Mathis is an Edgerusher but then you don’t know what London Merritt’s gonna be right? He’s 6 ‘2 and a half, 250 top 125 player really really really talented player but you don’t know if he’s gonna be an Edgerusher and kind of judging how Ohio State likes its Edgerusher’s you know they like them to be a little bit taller.

you know, look at the guys that they’re committing, know, Zion Grady, 6 -4, Zaheer Mathis is 6 -6, you know, there’s players that they like and there’s a prototype that they like on the edge and you wondered if Merritt was it. So I think you could look at that class and go, man, maybe they only have one edge rusher in this class right now. And then you add Grady. So not only does he fill a position of need, he’s a great football player and you pull him out of Alabama.

Stephen Means (14:52.9)

I think anything that emphasizes the fact that Nick Saban is no longer running Alabama’s program is impactful, right? Whether you’re talking from the transfer portal with Caleb Downs and Julian Sand, or you’re talking about the fact that a five -star quarterback is not going to Alabama.

In fact, he’s not even staying in the SEC. He’s going to Ohio State. And if people are worried that maybe he might flip, I think the top option is maybe Oregon. But even then, I don’t think that’s actually going to happen. It’s just something to keep an eye on because it’s getting the SEC. And then you go get, as you just mentioned, Zion Grady. And you might not be done down there. went from a world of Ohio State doesn’t really recruit Alabama at all. Right. They don’t even try. So how state might have three kids from Alabama in one class at NFL premium positions at that. That says something. And so I think Tim

doing it is man he’s hot right now right Larry Johnson doing it in back -to -back years he went and got a kid out of Georgia in the 2024 class in Edrick Houston and now he goes in there and gets Zion Grady out of Alabama that’s I mean that’s saying something we talked about this a couple of weeks ago when we were doing our position break by down by breakdown the state of the program series about how what this is saying about our

recruits buying into the idea that Larry Johnson could be out of here in two or three years? Well, a kid who flipped from Alabama to Ohio State, it probably is not.

Probably not sold on the idea that Larry Johnson isn’t as finished as some people would like to suggest that he’s closer to the end than we expect. Now, yes, he’s closer to the end than he is the beginning, but that kid would not have committed to Ohio State if he didn’t think Larry Johnson was gonna be around for a little bit longer. That’s number one. Number two, Andrew, second most impactful recruiting win post official visit season for Ohio State.

Andrew (16:32.002)

Riley Pettigon, linebacker. Riley Pettigon is a five -star linebacker out of the state of Texas. And Mr. Stephen Means, I’m not sure if you watched the college football playoff last year. The University of Texas was represented in the college football playoff. And Texas has not really done the recruiting job that you would think. And it sounds like the final three came down to Ohio State, Texas, and USC.

Texas A was also kind of hanging around there. So you meet two Texas schools and then USC, a school that I know he liked, for a kid out of Texas who’s a five star player, he can run. And that is the thing that I was really impressed. You watch his film, his closing speed, his elite. He’s not overly big. Like he’s 6 ‘1 1⁄2, 215. I mean, he’s obviously gonna gain some weight when you get to college and he might not even be done growing yet. We’ll have to see on

He is just about to be a senior in high school after all. But you land this kid right after the 4th of July on July 6th, and he definitely fits maybe more of the prototypical linebacker in 2024 than the 2023 linebacking core, right? Like he’s not Bobby Carpenter or AJ Hawk or Anthony Schlegel or James Laurinaitis. And funny that we say it’s James Laurinaitis, but James Laurinaitis is recruiting these guys. He’s recruiting a completely different type of linebacker.

that played linebacker back in the day. So you go into Texas and beat out the Longhorns and beat out A and you beat out USC for this kid. They had the first official visit. You he took an unofficial visit to Florida State, I know. He had some other offers and some other visits in the South that he took. But you had the first OV and then you have to hang on through USC, through Texas.

And then through Texas A and then he goes into decision modes, shuts it down for two weeks, makes his decision. That’s a huge deal. That’s a huge deal for James Laurinaitis because Ohio State had been looking for a third linebacker. It felt as if they really kind of pushed all their chips in on Riley Petitjian. The Madden Ferrymo visit doesn’t happen. It sounds like that’s going to be, you know, maybe the schools that missed out. Really it’s Notre Dame, USC or Texas for him.

Andrew (18:58.006)

Nathaniel Utsubo -Teng visits and it sounds like it’s going to be Michigan or Notre Dame for him. And you start to wonder like, okay, are they actually going to get three in this class? And I had said on this pod, I think you can want three, but you have to find the right three. You’re not going to take, you know, a three star player that you just need because you need a breathing human being at that position. You know, you need to take some quality there too. And that’s exactly what they found. So you got a third linebacker, man.

And now all of a sudden you’ve got a class with TJ Alford, who’s a top 50 linebacker. You’ve got Riley Pettigon, who’s obviously a five star. Then you have Eli Lee, who he’s fluctuated back and forth between, he’s like a low four star, high three star. Now he’s technically a three star. He’s number 449 overall player, but I know Ohio State really likes him. They’ve compared him to Tommy Eichenberg in the past.

So I mean, with the the Petit John angle, the last thing I’ll say about it. Talent football player that you go into Texas to pull out, and now you have two of the top five backers in the class and no other country in the program or no other program in the country can say that because, you know, sounds like Jonah Williams might be going to A or he might be going to Oregon or whatever. He’s the number one overall player in the class. Then there’s a Georgia commit. Then there’s an OSU commit in Riley Petit John.

then there’s an Alabama commit, then there’s TJ Alford. Like that’s a bang up job by James Laurinaitis in his first official class. So, you know, A plus on

Stephen Means (20:34.894)

When he when Peyton Pierce and all his momentum shifted from Notre Dame to Ohio State the moment James or not has left Notre Dame to become be a GA at Ohio State. It was like James might be pretty good at this. It should probably hire him as a full time staff member. I there might be something there.

And then they hired him as a full -time staff member. And it is first class, as you just mentioned, two top 50 recruits and a kid from Northeast Ohio that they’re comparing to a kid who was also from Northeast Ohio and just so happened to be a Consensus Second Team All -American, his second to last year as Ohio State starting linebacker.

Not bad, right? It’s like, no, he won’t be pretty good at this. I think he might be awesome at this. And so Ohio State’s got a wide receivers coach, a linebackers coach and a cornerbacks coach who all played at Ohio State and are now on the coaching staff. It might all just be pretty awesome at this. To your point, Andrew, it’s like.

I mean, it sets a tone for what the expectation is going to be for James Zorinaitis and recruiting that room. It’s the fact that they hadn’t gotten a five star linebacker. They hadn’t even gotten, they’d only had one top 100 recruit at linebacker who wasn’t from Ohio. So that ex -nays CJ Hicks and gay powers from this conversation. The only one that had was Cody Simon as a top 100 recruit in the 2020 class. They had not a five star linebacker who wasn’t from Ohio since 2017 with Baron Browning. James Zorinaitis did that in six months on the job.

Yeah, I think that’s, I probably would have flipped this order, but I get why you put Zion Grady first, because it’s like, again, anytime you can emphasize Alabama is kind of open for business until Kalan Dupour shuts it back down. Yes, he’s recruiting well nationally, but also Ohio State, Georgia, Oregon, they’re all coming in to try to raid you. Right? So Ohio State getting in on that raid that matters, but Riley Pettigon.

Stephen Means (22:25.828)

And even TJ Offred, I know he had committed before official visits, which is why he’s not a part of this conversation. getting those guys within six months of being a position coach ever is that’s as impactful as it gets. Number three, Andrew, final most impactful win for Ohio State post official visits.

Andrew (22:47.736)

Fiend lane, safety. And one of the reasons that I have him here is, actually the reason I have him here is because you needed this one. You needed it. You just needed it. I had gotten told a couple of months ago that OSU was probably his destination. There had been rumors of silent commit, whatever you wanna believe about that.

You could believe it matters. You could believe it matters 0%. I don’t really, I’m not going to tell you what to believe on that. There had been rumors about kind of what was going on with Fahim because it felt like in February, was a lot of momentum in Jan, March. There was a lot of momentum for him to just do it, for him to just commit. He told me back in February that he wanted to commit before his senior season.

but he wasn’t gonna put a deadline on it. He didn’t wanna put a timeline on it. He just told me he wanted to do it before his senior year began so he could just be done with it and his head could be clear.

And then we just got radio silence for a couple of weeks and months, right? Like it felt like we were talking about Ken, Ohio state land, Fahim Delane and Trey Mcnu*tt. And, know, is Dorian Brew a safety or how can they, you know, mix this safety group? What can they do? And it just, it felt for so long, like he was a lock to go to Ohio state. And then you get to like March and April and May, and you’re like, all

what in world is going on here? And he started to be a little curious about that. And then he pops, he commits. Pinedelaine decides that he’s gonna come to Ohio State. That was a big deal because not only is he a really good football player, this was the type of safety that they needed. Steven, you have obviously documented the safety recruits that Ohio State has gotten and more accurately not gotten in these last couple of cycles. You needed

Andrew (24:51.054)

a high end player like this, especially if, you know, we’re going to talk about them later, especially if Trey Mcnu*tt is maybe trending away from you. You know, you have a top 50 safety commit now and then your parent, I’m in a guy in a class with a guy who’s 290 into Sean Stewart and a guy who’s 383 and Cody Haddad. You have three four star safeties. Technically, they’re not the same four star safeties. You know, they’re different. Famed Elaine is a higher rated four star safety.

It’s kind of flirting with that five star status. Cody Haddad and Deshaun Stewart, more specifically Cody Haddad, just kind of got bumped up to that four star. So you needed a guy like this. You needed a playmaker at the top of the depth chart, or at least at the top of the position chart as you go through this recruiting class. So big deal by Ohio State to get him because if you’re talking about a safety class, they want four, but let’s say you get three.

You know, and it’s Messiah, Delome, Cody Haddad and Deshaun Stewart. Not saying you raise questions or you have problems with the class or you say, you know, this is a terrible situation and things are going wrong, but you would maybe have some concerns that the safety recruiting of the last couple of years has continued. And I think the Fahim Delay in commitment is a sign that it has not that the safety recruiting has gotten better.

that the safety recruiting is trending in a place where you feel good about it. Because now if you add Fahim DeLane and let’s say they add Masai Nalome, somebody who I predicted in our class prediction class is going to end up with Ohio State. I mean, you’re talking about like a top, you you got two players and you got one guy in the top 50, you got another guy, Masai Nalome, I would have to check his ranking, but he’s in the top 200. Then you got Deshaun Stewart, who’s a player that I think is maybe a little bit underrated by Ohio State.

not by the state, by how I say like, and, you know, he’s underrated in terms of the national sense. He’s a really good football player. Then you have Cody Haddad, who I think is going to also fly up the ranking. So that’s a class that you can get behind its safety. And that’s why fame glows.

Stephen Means (26:54.822)

First national top 100 safety recruit for Ohio State since Josh Proctor. And obviously I understand Sonny Stiles, who also grew up 15 minutes from you and whose father also played at Ohio State. It’s one of those situations where you talk about it where it doesn’t happen. You applaud it for happening. You applaud it. But also, when you go out and leave your borders and you go get a guy and maybe things got stagnated a little bit when Perry Eliano wasn’t retained. And so Matt Guerrero had to kind of.

rework some things there, but eventually he did make that happen. So he and Elaine in the class and to your point, it’s that much more important when it feels like there’s a five star safety in your backyard who just isn’t interested in staying home for whatever the reasons may be. And we’ll get to that later in the spot. Okay. Those are the three most important.

Of the 12 wins that Ohio State’s had post official visits from its 33 official visitors who were undecided or committed elsewhere when they visited Ohio State in June Zion Grady number 80 player number seven edge rusher the four star recruit out of Alabama Riley Pettigon the number 29 player number three linebacker in the five star.

recruit from Texas and then Fahim Delane, the number 35 player, the second best safety in the country, four star recruit out of Maryland are the three most impactful. According to Andrew Gillis, we’re gonna take a quick break and then we started with the good, now we’re gonna talk about the bad, which don’t have to be crazy bad, but they just, you you win some, you lose some, and we’re gonna get into some of those losses when we come back from the break here on Buckeye Talk.

Stephen Means (28:21.286)

Get the text 614 -350 -3315. Fall Camp is two days away as you’re listening to this on Thursday. We’ll be back at the Woody.

watching players run around in pads and hit each other. That’s not true. They’re probably not going to be hitting each other. Not even going to be a full pad, right? It’s acclimation period. First day of fall camp as Ohio State prepares for the 2024 regular season. We’ll be in there and we’ll be texting stuff off of practice. We’ll be texting stuff off Orion Day. I’m sure we’ll talk with Jim Nose and Chip Kelly as the two coordinators and play callers as well. So get the text 614 -350 -3315. Two week free trial, $3 .99 after that. But for right now,

We’re talking recruiting. We’re talking the future. We’re talking Ohio State’s 2025 recruiting class and its wins and losses and differences of its 2024 summer official visit season. 33 players in town who were not committed to Ohio State at the time of their visit. They won 12, they lost 14, and there are still six undecided and another one who’s maybe a possible addition later down the line here.

Of the 14 losses, Andrew, we’ve already discussed the wins. Most impactful loss of the past two months.

Andrew (29:29.11)

Yeah, right before the break, what was the word you said? was disaster or it wasn’t, you know, it’s not a big problem if a kid commits somewhere sometimes like that. You just lose a recruiting battle. I forget what your phrasing was about that. Yeah, whatever your phrasing was, there’s one player on this list that that ascribes to and that’s Justin Hill. I think that this is a big, big, big swing and miss by Ohio State. Ohio State obviously loses Justin Hill.

Stephen Means (29:42.276)

I don’t know, I say a lot of things on this podcast.

Andrew (29:58.734)

I was down there at his commitment at Winton Woods High School down in the Cincinnati area. I’ll never forget this. I was driving down to Cincinnati. I get to Cincinnati, walk in 15, maybe 25 minutes before the commitment. And obviously I’m driving. I’m not checking Twitter. I’m not checking anything. I’m ready for him to commit to Ohio State. And one of the other writers that was there looks at me and goes, when did you know? And there was a crystal ball selection that came in right

like 12 o ‘clock for Justin Hill to commit to Alabama. And obviously that is what happened. Big, big, big commitment by Alabama, first off, because this is the type of player that Alabama I think uses really well. I mean, he’s six, he’s listed at six, three, two 20. I mean, they’ve compared him to Dallas Turner. They’ve compared him to, to Will Anderson at Alabama. They, know, I don’t know why I said Alabama.

that Alabama, you know, that when you look at the height, weight, speed measurements, that is what Alabama saw in him. And they had a plan for him and they showcased him. Here’s how we can use you. Ohio State was going to use him to play the jack and they had been recruiting the guy for a while. And this was it. This is a year long recruitment and more multi -year recruitment and you don’t get

And there was not a number two on your board for the Jack. There was not a guy that you look at and say, this guy fits the Jack position exactly the way we want to play it. This guy is 100 % the player that is for us after Justin Hill. Justin Hill told me he doesn’t really want to play with his hand in dirt and be a four down, you know, defensive lineman. He wants to move around. He thinks that’s where he’s best. He thinks that’s what he can help the team, you know,

the most at when he’s moving around, when he’s dropping into coverage, when he’s buzzing out into a flat, when he’s rushing the passer. You got to use him in different ways. And that’s what Ohio State’s missing. He’s a top 60 kid, number 56 overall in the class and before Ed Rusher. He needs from your state. He’s from your backyard. It felt like for so long, Justin Hill was just leaning Ohio State. It was going to go Ohio State’s way. He called Ohio State his dream school.

Andrew (32:23.624)

And not to read between the lines because he didn’t explicitly say it, but he called Ohio State his dream school and then talked about what he has to do that’s best for his future. So basically he looked at Alabama and said, I have a better chance of getting developed professionally at an NFL level at Alabama than I do at Ohio State. And that’s why that’s a big swing and miss because now what’s the future of the Jack position? We don’t

Ohio State has been kind of clamoring to get that Jack position. guess maybe Jim Knowles has been clamoring to get that Jack position back in his defense. We don’t know what that’s going to be. So we don’t know the future of that. This throws into to question kind of where the defense goes. Do you recruit more defensive linemen? How does Larry Johnson and Jim Knowles kind of handle this with four down linemen? Is there a Jack on the roster that you could use right now? It just the plan wasn’t there that Justin Hill saw for

the correct way to get him to the NFL, least in his eyes. And Ohio State swung and missed because of it. And that’s a big deal. And that’s a big swing and miss. you know, he said it, you know, money and that’s not, that’s not why I did this. He wanted to make clear that this was about his future. This was about where he thought he had the best chance of getting developed to an NFL player. And he chose the Crimson Tide over the Buckeyes. And that’s, that’s a, that’s a miss.

Stephen Means (33:44.774)

I think if you look at this from an NFL perspective, and you look at it from a trade perspective, I just think these are all pieces of the Jameson Williams 2021 trade, where Alabama got Jameson Williams for a year for a transfer and two recruits to be named later. And as a part of that, Ohio State would also send.

top 100 recruit to be named later as well and those names ended up being Caleb Downs but also had the Columbus along with Zion Grady and Ahim offered and maybe Malik Autry that’s maybe it’s still on the table while Justin Hill goes Alabama I’m totally joking I think this is a big deal because Alabama came up to Ohio and got a top 100 recruit at a time when Ohio State hasn’t been letting a top 100 recruits leave its state at all and if they do there’s typically a reason why why is Jural or not at Ohio State because that’s when yours and then you had Tevin Brown so it’s fine

It’s fine that you didn’t get your out, right? That’s usually what it is. If a top 100 recruit is leaving the state and Ohio in the Ryan Day era, it’s because Ohio State went out and got a national kid that was probably better, at least in terms of ratings and how we look at things in the recruiting world. But also when yours is better than your hour right now, it’s just when yours is not at Ohio State, he’s at Texas. I think the other part of this, the details of it, the stuff you’re talking about, Andrew, they were recruiting him to play the jack.

This is what I mean, you’re recruiting a guy to play a position that there’s no proof that you actually use. And this isn’t year one of Jim Knowles where you’re selling an idea anymore. Jim Knowles has been the defensive coordinator for two years now, going into his third year. And there’s just not real evidence that it’s going to be used. And maybe we get to the end of this year and they’ve used the jack.

And it looks decent, right? It doesn’t look elite because it’s year one of it, but it looks decent enough that a top 50 recruit, a top 100 recruit like Justin Hill gets the idea and goes, you know what? Okay, now I’m sold. I’m staying home. But it’s understandable why a guy with his skill set, his build wants to go play somewhere that has historically played a three, four defense. Now is Kailin DeBoer going to play a three, four defense this year? I don’t know. I don’t cover

Stephen Means (35:53.018)

So don’t know that maybe they will. I know they played a four down front at Washington. So maybe they bring that to Alabama as well. Or maybe because Caitlin, the board did keep some guys from the defensive coaching staff of Nick Saban. Maybe he does adapt the three down front, the three, four front or the three, three, five that we’ve seen a lot of SEC teams play. But it’s just in recent history, to your point, Dallas Turner and Will Anderson exists. And that’s not saying Justin Hill is going to be Dallas Turner good or Will Anderson good. That’s not what we’re saying. But what we are saying

The guy who coached those two human beings is still on Nick Alabama’s coaching staff Even though Nick Saban is not there and that’s their defensive line coach and that’s who was recruiting Justin Hill And that’s the guy who is telling him I can turn you into those guys. You believe that more than

OK, at Ohio State, yes, it’s home. Yes, there’s a chance to win a national championship. Yes, you can develop people whose room am I going to be in? Am I going to be in James Lauren Isis room? Am I going to be a Larry Johnson’s room? And if there is some headbutting there about which room he is going to be in and it doesn’t seem like a smooth road to get to whatever he’s supposed to be, I get why he chose Alabama in that instance. And again, this recruitment is not over, but I do think the impact of

Alabama stole the top 100 recruit from your backyard. That’s impact. Here’s why Alabama stole a top 100 recruit from your backyard. That’s more impact because right now the Jack is no different than what the bullet was when Jeff Halfley was the defensive coordinator here. It’s this cool idea and court Williams is still here and it’s still not played it. Now. There’s been some injuries. Of course I’ve gotten away, but it’s an idea and selling an idea doesn’t always work in recruiting.

Though, let’s see, right? There’s four months until signing day, and so Justin Hill could very easily change his mind over the next four months, right? Because he wouldn’t be the first kid from Wynton Woods to go to Ohio State recently. Obviously, Jermaine Matthews and Maya Williams also went there during the day area as well. OK, that’s number one. Who’s number two?

Andrew (37:55.544)

Well, actually, I just want to read a quote real quick before I get into number two, because I think this exemplifies it. So this is a story from Cleveland .com written by Mr. Andrew Gillis. I talked with Justin at one of those like seven on seven camps in June. And here’s what he had to say. Quote, coach Jim Knowles really got brought over to Ohio State for that Jack play style. And he hasn’t really got that prototype to really do it. And they also got JT and Jack, which are the best DN duo probably in the country. So it makes sense why they have not done

I had confusion going into the visit on just how they plan to, were they going straight into the jack or how they plan to use all that type stuff. And I got a lot of clarity. feel like just talking a lot of ball coming to help me see through that. Then the next line that I wrote, Hill said the staff showed him Duke and Oklahoma State film from Noles’s time with those programs showcasing what they wanted him to be on the field. That I think is maybe something that we should have taken more note of obviously hindsight’s 2020,

he came into a visit not really knowing how they were gonna use him and they showed him how they were gonna use him. They told him how they were gonna use him and they said, here’s what we did at Duke and here’s what we did at Oklahoma State and by the way, I’m going into my extra year as a defensive coordinator. So yeah, like we all said, I think that that might’ve been maybe the first warning sign that there could’ve been something amiss. Number two on my list. Now we get into the guys where it’s like, you know what, sometimes you swing and miss, sometimes you lose.

This one, this just stings a little bit because you technically lost twice. Five star receiver Decorianmore. Number five, or five star player, number three overall player in the class, the number one receiver. He originally committed to LSU. He then backs off his commitment in May. Kind of felt like he was going to Texas for a while. Then all of sudden, Oregon

Stephen Means (39:46.542)

Is that because he was committed to Texas that you felt that way?

Stephen Means (39:56.484)

wait, no, he was coming to LSU.

Andrew (39:57.006)

He was committed. Yeah, you had me so confused for a second because he was originally committed to to LSU. He committed before last year. He committed in May. I remember he committed. I was in Key West and I had to have Stephen write that story at 10 o ‘clock at night. So he decommits from LSU, but LSU was still in the mix. He got his four down to Ohio State, LSU, Texas and Oregon. Felt like Texas was going to be the school for him after that LSU commitment. Again, I mentioned Texas. This is a Duncanville kid.

Kid from the state of Texas.

Stephen Means (40:28.742)

Can I cut you off real quick? There are nine five star recruits in the state of Texas in the 2019 class, excuse me, in the 2025 class. None of them are committed to Texas right now. None of them. And they just made the playoff six months ago. And none of them are committed to Texas. That’s insane. We’re talking about Ohio State losing on Justin Hill. And we’re to get into Trey Mcnu*tt later in this podcast. That’s two highly rated Ohio kids. Two.

Andrew (40:39.054)

Crazy. Crazy. They just made the playoff!

Stephen Means (40:58.202)

that you’re missing out on, but they still got Tavian, St. Clair and a bunch of other guys. Imagine if Ohio had nine five -star recruits and it was basically August and they had none of them going to the Buckeyes. We would be like, Ryan, what’s going on with your program? Now granted, Texas is a bigger state. So, you know, it’s hard to keep guys home, but still it’s ridiculous. Continue. I’m sorry.

Andrew (41:23.832)

Well, we might be looking at it. We might be looking at it. We might be like saying, Hey, Ryan, best of luck at your next employment and ever if there were nine five stars in the state of Ohio, they didn’t get them. Yeah, insane. guess what? So it’s millennial. is it Gen Z is next after millennial? Whatever’s next or maybe Gen Z, maybe Gen Z years don’t like Lamborghinis, I guess. Maybe that’s the

Stephen Means (41:31.61)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (41:42.544)

Not

It’s gonna make us sound older than we actually

Andrew (41:52.878)

but DeCorey and more commits to, commit, commits to Oregon. He commits on the 4th of July. he commits with one of the longer Instagram commitments. I can remember. I think it took like 25 minutes to commit. he goes outside, lights and fireworks says he’s shutting down his commitment, says he’s going to Oregon. We talked about this on our Michigan, Oregon pod. Oregon has the number one and number three receivers in the 2025 class. That sounds like a class at Ohio state.

has put together because it is like it sounds exactly like a class at Brian Heartline can put together and now Oregon has it. So I think. You know, there was good news coming out of DeCorey and Moore’s commit or is is OV. Visited the last week of May or like that weekend that spilled over into June. He was the first OV weekend. Then you start to think, OK, well. He’s got all these other visits.

And I wonder how this is going to go. And obviously Ohio State kind of fell behind and he ends up with Oregon. He goes to Oregon and it’s a miss. It’s a big miss just because of how good he is. I mean, he would be, you know, I mean, he would be far and away. Maybe the, the best offensive player in the class, like non quarterback division, cause it’s like an argument for him and Tavian, but he would obviously be your best receiver.

He would obviously be your best running back. Like of the skill positions, he’s the clear number one. Depending on what David Sanders does, he might’ve been your top offensive commit anyway. And it’s just, I think you have to throw him on there because of how good he is. And then you have to throw him on here because he also committed to a Big Ten school that you’re gonna see in 26 and 27. And potentially in post -season play, obviously.

Just how good he is, I had to put him on this list. I debated, like, where do I put him here? Because Ohio State’s already so loaded at receiver. It didn’t really feel like a huge loss like the Justin Hill loss because it never really felt like Ohio State was clearly number one for him. And they just somebody screwed up along the way and they missed out. It didn’t really feel like that. But just because of the level of player he is, I put him on the list.

Stephen Means (44:17.162)

I I get why you put him on here. I don’t know if I would have included him. It’s just We’re talking about Brian Hartline here, man. And I think at this point he’s built in enough benefit that of the doubt

Andrew (44:25.538)

Mm -hmm. Sure.

Stephen Means (44:30.822)

in a year where he doesn’t land the number three player in the top wire receiver in the country. I think it’s fine. Right. I think what we’re seeing in this 2025 class is maybe a little more similar to what we saw in 2022, where it’s more lower rated guys, not guys you’re expecting to be like, OK, it’s year two time to play. Right. Like you saw in 2021 and 2020 you had Jackson Smith, the jigs, but it’s year two. It’s time to play.

In 2021, you have Marvin Harrison Jr. and Mecca Buca. It’s year two. It’s time to play. 2022, you kind of backed off of that a little bit. You guys like Keon Gray’s and Caleb Burton and Caleb Brown and Kojo Antwee. Three of those guys are not even here anymore. And Kojo Antwee, we’re not talking about him in terms of the 2D for Ohio Statewide Receiving Corps this year. And then you come back to it in 2023. You’ve got Brandon Dennis and you’ve got Cardinal Tate where it’s like it’s year two, let’s play football. And Bryson Rogers may be coming up behind them. In 2024.

You know, there’s a kid who’s from Florida who might just be the second coming of wide receiver Jesus and Jeremiah Smith. And year one, it’s like, yeah, yo, let’s go. Let’s get ready to play football. While with Mylon Graham, let’s check in next spring. Hey, it’s year two. Let’s get ready to play football.

And then in the 2026 class, you’ve already got Chris Henry Jr. who might be on the Jeremiah Smith train of, hey, I know you just got here, but let’s play football, right? So if every couple of years, there’s a class where you just don’t get the big guys and maybe it’s an IL related, maybe it’s not, whatever the reasons are, I think Brian Hartline has earned enough benefit of the doubt that we can live with

while also I think there’s some pretty quality guys in this class. Quincy Porter’s a quality audition. Bobpin Miller’s got some upside that might be long term, but there’s some upside there. If you think Bill Bell’s gonna eventually end up in this class, I think there’s upside. So it’s not, you’re not recruiting backups, career backups. You’re just recruiting guys who maybe have a little bit longer of a development train than being three and done players. Everybody can’t be that in your program.

Andrew (46:04.728)

Sure.

Stephen Means (46:25.676)

I think the reason he would be on a list like this is because now losing out on that guy doesn’t mean he goes to the SEC.

Right now losing out on Zachariah Brands to USC means you got to play him in the regular season. Right. De ‘Corian Moore, you got to play him in the regular. He’s not a playoff problem. That’s the interesting thing about Ohio State and Oregon. And this isn’t the power we’re going to get into today. I’m just going to say it off brand and we can mention it later down the list when we get to Oregon Week. Ohio State recruits in a way that when it misses on some of these highly rated guys, it’s a playoff problem.

Andrew (46:40.183)

Right.

Stephen Means (47:01.382)

Right? When they lost out on Jordan battle, when he flipped to Alabama after urban Meyer retired in 2019, that was a playoff problem. They didn’t have to see Jordan battle until they got to the national championship game. Right? When you’re losing kids to Georgia, that’s a playoff problem. There were not big 10 problems a lot for Ohio state. Now they are.

because you lost a kid to Oregon and Oregon’s in your conference. You lost a kid to USC, USC’s in your conference. You know what, down the list there, it’s no longer just a problem for December, January, and February. It might be a problem in October as well. That’s what makes the impact big there. So I don’t know if I would have put him on my list, but I do understand why, because of where he is going to school. At least right now, we don’t know what’s gonna happen, but.

As of right now, he’s going to Oregon because he have where he’s going to school. I get why you would put him on a list like this. So that’s number two, the corn more top three player in the country, five star wide receiver out of Texas. Who’s your final guy?

Andrew (47:57.898)

Yeah, there was there were so many guys here. Like, honestly, I might say my name and you convince me elsewhere. You convince me otherwise. There were just there were a lot of guys here that I that I debated. I debated I debated Vernell Brown. It felt like a guy that Ohio State led for for a while. And then it just he’s he didn’t want to leave Florida. And that’s he’s a five star receiver. Really, really talented receiver would have been Ohio State’s number one receiver in the class.

But his dad played to Florida. His dad’s got a lot of Florida connections. He’s got a lot of Florida connections. Makes sense. Dorian Brew. I had him on my, you know, kind of others receiving votes where it’s like, well, his mom is a, you know, Ohio State Hall of Famer. You know, she ran track at Ohio State. He’s technically had lived in, well, I guess not technically. He did. He lived in Ohio for the majority of his life. He just moved to Texas. I was going to say he’s technically an Ohio kid, but

sorta, because he lives in Texas now. But for all intents and purposes, an Ohio kid. But you also have Nahim Offert and Fahim Delay, or excuse me, Nahim Offert and Devin Sanchez as your two corners in this class. And basically you’re you miss out on Dorian Brew and it goes from this is one of the best, if not the best recruiting classes at corner in the modern recruiting era to, it’s just really good. It’s just really good. And it’s like, OK.

I’m not sure about that. Micah DeBose, I had him under consideration. It just felt like Ohio State was maybe always wishing with that one where it’s like, hey, he’s got some Ohio ties. Maybe that can play out. you know, was a kid who, know, LSU was involved, Alabama was involved. It kind of felt like now that he was living in Mobile, it was just, you know, a tough sell. And that led me to Damien Shanklin. And Damien Shanklin is third because I think Damien Shanklin’s a really good football

Kid out of Warren Central in Indianapolis. He’s a borderline top 100 player, number 104 overall in the class, number 10, Ed Rusher. This is a player who also called Ohio State his dream school. He had also said that Ohio State was the school that he grew up rooting for and the school that he eventually wanted to play at.

Andrew (50:17.056)

It just didn’t work out. I think, you know, he found a situation that also worked for him, but this is a player that you would like to have. You know, it’s not the greatest tragedy in the world. It’s not, know, you’re not kicking yourself like you were with Justin Hill, you know, because you do have some other really good players in this class. But, you know, you map out the future of the defensive end room, you know, defensive end room might look real different, real fast, you know, cause JT and Jack are gone after this year. have Kenyatta Jackson and Kaden Curry who

will be fourth year players next year on this team. And then they got one more year. So basically it’s you got Edrick Houston, which early returns are really good. Sounds like Dominic Kirk’s might kick inside at some point in his career. You needed a big defensive end class. And I think obviously the Zion Grady one, you know, that commitment really helps you. And that’s why I had him as the biggest commitment. That’s why I think he was the most important. It’s just that Damian Shanklin would have been a really good football player.

And I think he is a really good football player. And if you have to recruit any position on, your football program, it’s defensive line for me after you, after you recruit quarterback, stacking talent on the defensive line would have been just an unbelievable, unbelievable pull for Ohio state and they didn’t get it done. So I Damien Shanklin third also consider Jordan Davis and for what

Stephen Means (51:38.342)

I would have went with Davison just because I think the bigger impact, Damian Shanklin, I think it’s to your point, just more depth in the situation, but I think they’re doing fine in terms of the guys they’re adding. Number 104 player, number 10, Edgeroccher in the country. I think with Jordan Davison, the borderline top 100 running back out of California, it just felt

The momentum was there for Carlos Loughlin to really kind of knock it out the park and go three for three, three weekends in a row. And obviously Oregon came in and kind of stole that momentum. And again, you got to see this guy in your conference. Damon Shanklin’s going down to LSU. So that’s a playoff problem. Oregon’s a regular season problem. But more importantly,

Regardless of who the player is, the point is they wanted three running backs in this class and it seems like they might only get two though as you’ve mentioned and others have mentioned there’s a kid who’s committed to Alabama right now that they’re in the business of flipping. But it’s the fact that we’re asking the question, okay, what does Ohio State do now with running back?

Do they go try to find a third for this class? Or do you go to the portal after the year and find a one year guy? But it’s just that question is now on the table because you didn’t just go get your third guy. And maybe you would have added a portal guy anyway, but maybe you wouldn’t have felt so in need to do it. It’s a louder conversation now that you didn’t get Jordan Davidson and you’re putting in three freshmen in a room with James Peoples and Sam William Dixon.

Andrew (53:02.902)

Yeah, that’s why I didn’t have Davidson because I think you map out the room. It’s James people’s Sam Williams, Dixon, and then it like. Carlos Lachlan made no bones about who we wanted. He tweeted this now. Technically, it was like a subtweet because he posted about it and he, know, he just posted pictures of it. He didn’t necessarily say we want Jordan Davidson to come to Ohio State, but it was very clear what was going on. So. You don’t get him and.

Even if you do get him though, are you comfortable with James Peoples, Sam Williams -Dixon and the three freshmen in your backfield next year? I don’t know. And that is why I think you can maybe get past this because I think you might’ve gone to the transfer portal anyway. You might’ve hit the portal anyway. And I think that that loss is mitigated. Like if you hit the portal anyway,

I think that that loss is mitigated because Bo Jackson is still really good. I do really like Bo Jackson and I think Isaiah West, mean, I still do really like Isaiah West. Three star, think 528 is probably far too low for his ranking. like you have those two guys and if you had a transfer portal guy, even if you flip Anthony Rogers, the kid out of Alabama, I still think you might go to the portal and try to add somebody.

So we’ll see what happens. just, think that with, two running backs already in the class, maybe with a portal edition, that was the deciding factor.

Stephen Means (54:30.16)

So.

Stephen Means (54:40.228)

Yeah, but that’s putting you in position where you might have six running backs in your room. I don’t know if you need six running backs. just, think. Yeah, and for sure, but I don’t know if like they’re.

Andrew (54:43.982)

Well that’s the thing, in San William 6 it might not be a running back. They want to try him in running back and we’ll see, but...

Stephen Means (54:51.344)

They’re going to have to make that decision quick. I don’t think you can. can’t DeMario McCall the situation where you got that kid going all over the place because then he’ll never develop anywhere if he’s thrown around in too many rooms, because that’s partially what happened with DeMario McCall. You kept having to go back and forth between the wide receiver and running back room and then wonder why he’d never developed it either. And then he finished his career off as a quarterback, which was weird as can be. But it is what it is. The season is going to tell them if they need to go get it. I don’t think you can anticipate that because of James Peeples, even as number three.

Because Trey and Kunshan are getting all the meaningful stuff. If he’s flashing enough that lets you know that he’s ready for this in 2025, then I think they’re fine. running back’s the one position where I think you can do this, where you can see enough, where it’s like, OK, that’s going to be our guy, right? I don’t know if I wasn’t on the beat there, but I don’t know if Ohio State came into 2017 that spring thinking, no, we might have to rely on J .K. Dobbins in year two.

Well, we’ll see. Well, then guess what happened? J .K. Dobbins ran for a thousand plus yards and was awesome. And it’s like, OK, well, I’ll him back to situations to figure it out. Yeah. So I think James Peeples is not a three star. This guy is a borderline top 100 recruit, top 150 recruit. If if he shows things this year that suggest he’s ready to go, he’s just behind two of the five best running backs in college football, then OK.

Andrew (55:56.27)

Okay, he’s fine. Yeah, he’ll do.

Andrew (56:03.31)

Yeah, he was the top 100 recruiter. I think he was

Stephen Means (56:17.434)

We’re good here. Let’s move forward. Let’s get the room and get depth behind him. But James is our guy or maybe one of these rookies, maybe Bo Jackson comes in here as a true freshman and it’s just like, Whoa, we weren’t expecting it. Here we are now. Bose and ready to go. I think that’s all on the table at running back. So yes, not getting Jordan. Davidson opens up the situation of maybe you go get a transfer warning running back because one, you just don’t want to have only four guys in the room.

Two, you’re not sure, but I’m not going to lean either way in that. Maybe as you just mentioned, the kid who’s committed to Alabama right now, they flip him or maybe they get to the end of the year and they add somebody else or they add a transfer portal guy. But the type of transfer portal guy they add is going to depend on one who’s available for what started this. But also what does your room look like heading into the spring of 2024? Okay. Damien Shanklin, you had Dukkoren Moore and you had Justin Hill. That’s your top three.

biggest impactful losses for Ohio State most impactful losses. I think of those three Justin Hills. I think there’s a gap.

Andrew (57:22.018)

far and away, it’s one and then a gap and then

Stephen Means (57:24.806)

The core I core a five star recruit I get it. But Justin’s the one where it’s like it says more about the program than it does about the other thing the other two do in general. OK, let’s take our last break and then we’re going to come back and we’re going to look forward to guys making decisions this month in August. I know this is the last couple of days of July, we’re looking forward to August. But also a quick conversation about 2026 because Ohio State’s 2025 class is practically full so we can start to focus some of its resources and

focus on to that 2026 class, but we’ll get more into that when we come back from the break here on Buckeye Talk.

Stephen Means (58:04.25)

And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk. Two guys we haven’t talked about, one of which took an official visit this June. The other one has not taken an official visit here yet, but maybe you’re expecting him to take an official visit or some type of visit.

This fall, regardless of what decision he makes, let’s start with David Sanders. David Sanders making his decision on August 17th coming up and it’s between Ohio State, Tennessee, Georgia and Nebraska. He’s been on Nebraska’s campus this past weekend. I think he was at Tennessee not too long ago as well. He took an official visit to Ohio State. In June, he also took an official visit to Georgia and Clemson, though Clemson’s like a distant fifth in this conversation at this point, it feels like.

Andrew (58:44.504)

Clemson’s not even involved. Yeah, he has a top four and Clemson’s not in it. It’s Ohio State, Tennessee, Georgia, Nebraska.

Stephen Means (58:50.704)

So let’s just talk about feelings because we’re in the end game now, right? We’re about two and a half weeks away from this decision of the top tackle in the country and the number two player in the country from Charlotte, North Carolina. How do you feel, Andrew, about where this is headed and gut feeling, because this is the last time we’re gonna talk about this between now and he actually makes his decision, just kind of project a little bit.

How do you feel this is going to go for Ohio State? Or do you think they’re in the lead? If I told you to predict it right now, whether he comes to Ohio State or not, what would you say? Just talk about feelings when it comes to this five star recruit.

Andrew (59:36.258)

man, I really think they’re gonna get him. I really think the way things are going right now, I think David Sanders is gonna land at Ohio State. Now, don’t yell at me if I’m wrong, because we’re still a few weeks away from this. I still kinda wanna, you know, maybe kinda hear how things go and kinda where things are headed after, you know, obviously visits to Nebraska, after visits to Tennessee. You just, you never know.

And that’s why I feel uncomfortable saying, you know, he’s going to, not, you know, this isn’t a crystal ball or whatever. I just think Ohio State’s in a good spot. think they’ve been recruiting him for a very long time. They’ve made him the priority of their recruiting class. I mean, at worst, at absolute worst, he’s what? The third most important player in what could be the 2025 class? At worst?

if you include Tavian and Devin Sanchez over him. that’s, I mean, that’s the kind of player that we’re talking about. State does not land five -star offensive tackles. They really don’t. They are not this factory like they are at receiver or some of these other positions. And I just, I have a lot of feelings about this and I’m trying to put this into like a concise form,

I think he’s going to commit to Ohio State as of, you know, as we record this podcast in late July, I think he’s going to commit to Ohio State. And I think that it is going to be just the biggest positive momentum boost for Ohio State recruiting for Justin Fry for the entire 2025 class. Because again, I’m going to keep screaming about it I’ll actually probably get even more annoying about it. You still have Carter Lowe.

in this class. Carter Lowe is a top 50 tackle. He’s a top 50 overall player, number six tackle. He’s from Ohio. He’s a really good football player too. Now you’re telling me you have David Sanders, the number one overall tackle, the number two overall player in the class. Come on. Like that, that is a crazy good class. And I just, I really think people are, you know,

Andrew (01:02:00.65)

or should be preparing themselves for the highest of highs or the lowest of lows. Because if David Sanders Jr. doesn’t commit to Ohio State, doesn’t sound like Josh Petty’s coming. Doesn’t sound like Josh Petty’s gonna come to Ohio State. You missed on, the name is escaping me right now, but the offensive tackle who committed from, who’s from California, who committed to Alabama. You missed on him. Micah DeBose goes to Alabama. They’re just,

There’s guys that you didn’t get in this class. You missed on the stray horn kid, missed on Fennucu. Like there were players that, you know, were, that could have been part of this class that you didn’t get. And all the eggs are in the David Sanders Jr. basket. All the, all the guys are loaded up trying to get David Sanders Jr. Tavian St. Clair texts him all the time. All these players text him all the time, trying to bring him to Columbus. And if you get him.

It’s probably your biggest recruiting win of the cycle. And that includes Devin Sanchez. If you don’t get him, we have a lot of questions about where Justin Fry’s, you know, recruiting is headed because now you’re left with a class with, you know, Carter Lowe, who’s really good, but then you have Jake Cook and that’s about it. You know, you Jake Cook, a three star lineman now.

who’s going to play on an interior position for you, but you only have two. You only have two offensive linemen in this class. You get David Sanders and everything changes for Ohio State in the positive. And if you get, if you don’t get David Sanders Jr. Everything looks horrible. And it’s a bad look if you don’t get him because you have put all your eggs in this basket and it does stink for, for Ohio State. So yeah, for me, I, you never want to throw too many narratives onto one recruitment.

You never want to throw too many hyperboles onto one recruitment, but this is one of those exceptions. And I do think he’s going to end up at Ohio State, but it’s not going to be an easy couple of weeks. And you can be assured that even if he does commit to Ohio State, unless he tells other schools, I’m not coming. You need to stop texting me. People are going to keep trying until signing

Stephen Means (01:04:18.286)

I mean, people probably told Devin Sanchez probably told a bunch of coaches that too. And there’s probably some who are still struggling along. You know, this is kind of what it comes with the game. It’s just we’re in it now. We’re in the end game for the number two player in the country, the top tackle in the country where I think. I don’t like it. I don’t like the all eggs in one basket situation, but when it works, it works. I was just doing some looks backs at some other big time recruitments like this where I felt like it was all in or nothing and.

Andrew (01:04:22.825)

Stephen Means (01:04:48.23)

Chase Young was an all or nothing recruitment back in the 2017 class. He was the only defensive end. He said these words that they told him he was the only defensive end they were recruiting and they got him. And we see how that turned out for Ohio State. So it’s, can, when you go all in, it can work out for the best, right?

Jeremiah Smith you’re all in and you got him. It’s just you better get him because if you don’t get them then you’re the nothing part matters to me and When you’re talking about a position group that hasn’t consistently recruited at a high level It was fine when Larry Johnson did it why because he had a bosis in his back pocket that he could show chase

But also he’s Larry freaking Johnson when Brian Hartline goes all in on Jeremiah Smith. He can do that. Why? Because he’s got Marvin Harrison Jr. and Garrett Wilson and Chris Olava and Jackson Smith, the jigger in his back pocket. Plus, he’s Brian freaking Hartline. Tim Walton’s getting to that point where it’s Tim freaking Walton. The offensive line recruiting

Insert coach, freaking coach, right? It’s not the same thing in this situation. And so it can make you feel uneasy, especially on the offensive line where it’s already a developmental position. But August 17th, we find out whether being all in.

All or nothing for Justin Fry when it comes to David Sanders, whether it’s going to pay off or not. And I think it’s going to drastically shape how we talk about Justin Fry as a recruiter, but also in Ohio State’s recruiting at the offensive line in the future of that room. Trey Mcnu*tt. I feel like we’ve had this conversation already, but it’s because he decided to push back his commitment date that we’re having it again. He’s committing on Saturday. At least right now, he’s committing on Saturday. Maybe we get to Saturday and he pushes it back.

Stephen Means (01:06:31.244)

Once again, we don’t maybe have to go as deep into this one because I think it’s not the context hasn’t changed. He’s just done some things since then, right? I think he visited Texas A I think he visited Oregon as well. So he’s just taking a couple of other visits. You’re still expecting that Oregon wins this battle and Ohio State continues to fight it throughout the fall.

Andrew (01:06:51.446)

Yeah. Yeah. Oregon, Oregon, that nothing has really changed. I think from what, somebody else had this report, I believe, there was just some travel stuff. I don’t think it was anything crazy. I know we did take a visit to A I know we did take a visit to Oregon kind of after the fact, but we’ll see. I have no reason to believe that Oregon is not the school. I think for the purposes of this podcast, it’s not going to be Ohio

which I think is an interesting, interesting recruitment to monitor because we had talked about this. I had said this when we had this conversation before that it felt like Ohio state needed this recruitment to go into the fall if they wanted a shot and it’s not going to, well, I guess, you know, they could obviously, you know, stay on him and, and stay trying to flip him. But, you know, I think Ohio state’s best chance would have been trying to get him for an OV.

at some point during the season, maybe the Iowa game I think would have been an interesting one. You bring him down for maybe your biggest game of the season to that point. Obviously they play Michigan at home, but before that it’s slim pickings. So I think that maybe that might be a big game for him and you get around some other recruits and you get around some other prospects. That would have been a nice opportunity. But I’m intrigued to talk to him on Saturday. I’ll be up there.

and Shaker Heights and I’m intrigued to talk to him because I just want to know where his head is at because we’ve said this before sometimes players just want to go elsewhere and it sounds like that might be the recruitment like yeah people are gonna throw aw he only cares about the money and people gonna throw whatever it sounds like he wants to blaze his own trail that is the phrase that I’ve heard a couple times

carve his own path, blaze his own trail. You’ve heard that and which can’t yeah, it can be expensive. doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean you’re gonna do it for free. If you’re good at something, never do it for free. Trust me. Trust me. We love doing this. We love this podcast. We are getting paid to do this podcast. We are getting we are getting paychecks from Cleveland .com to do this podcast. If you’re good at something, never do it for free. And you can that can be true, right? You can go also and want to blaze your own trap or blaze your own path.

Stephen Means (01:08:50.98)

Which can be expensive, by the way, you

Andrew (01:09:16.27)

elsewhere. You don’t have to do it in Ohio. And, you know, I just I wonder if if there’s something to be said for the fact that 90 I mean, how many kids in his position will go to Ohio State? 90 % five star defensive back out of Shaker Heights. Like I would have to check the actual numbers on that. But how many five star kids in Ohio actually don’t go to Ohio State or how many top 50 kids in Ohio don’t go to Ohio State. But sometimes you just want to leave and sometimes you go somewhere.

that’s not Ohio State. And sometimes it’s okay. If you remember back in the winter, you know, there was this seven on seven thing where they talked about, you know, suspending him for the entire year. You know, he was under, I think he got suspended for the first couple of games because he had played a seven on seven tournament illegally with some team that he wasn’t allowed to do. And, you know, there was a whole stink kind of raised about this and, you know, why Ohio is maybe lagging behind Texas and Florida and some of these other schools about.

you know, seven on seven tournaments and things like that. And one of the things his mom was quoted in, in another publication where she was saying, yeah, we might move. Like we might leave Ohio to move, you know, and, and I’m not saying that that precludes him from, you know, going to Ohio state. It’s just maybe that I think could be an indication as to where their head was at. Maybe, you know, if they have to leave Ohio, they have to leave Ohio and it’s not a big deal and, at least not a big deal to them. So we will get a better sense of where his head was at.

After I talk to him, obviously get the text 614 -350 -3315. I will be in Shaker Heights. I will be on site. So you will have all of your Ohio State practice goodness. You will get all of your information from us. And then it’ll be Trey Mcnu*tt. And then on Saturday night, you’ll be hearing why Trey Mcnu*tt probably chooses to not go to Ohio State, whether that’s A or Oregon. So we’ll see, but this would have been a really good football player to add because again,

We talked about Delane and Mcnu*tt for months as maybe the safety tandem that turns Ohio State safety recruiting around. And yeah, he got famed Lane, but probably not going to get trimming.

Stephen Means (01:11:23.238)

So let’s look forward a little bit to the 2026 class. Where Chris Henry Jr., top player in the country, all alone, all by himself, all lonely, still lonely, no quarterback, nobody to throw him the ball, no blockers, no defense, you just hit him. He’s the five star wide receiver.

24 commits in the 2024 2025 class, excuse me. And David Sanders is the big fish still out there. Maybe that’s 2025 by the sun. Maybe the 2025 class has 25 commits by the time the season starts. And then maybe you can flip Justin Hill. Maybe you can flip Trey Mcnu*tt. But we’ve reached the point, I think, with the 25 class where the names are known, both committed and undecided. Maybe there’s some guys that pop up before the most car part. think we know.

what the story is with the 2025 class and what’s left between now. Right, but he, right, it’s almost done, but even the guys that may or may not end up at Ohio State, we know who they are. We know how, between now and mid -December, we know how this is going to shape out terms of who the names are, which is why we’re gonna look forward very quickly here to 2026.

Andrew (01:12:10.734)

It’s almost done to be fair. There’s only a handful of guys left that could get added.

Stephen Means (01:12:32.486)

And it’s just a simple question of who you think is the most likely next addition to 2026 recruiting class joining Chris Henry.

Andrew (01:12:40.098)

I’m gonna cheat. I think it might be Jaquem Stewart. I think if you were to put that on who the next, well, and here’s why I’m cheating.

Stephen Means (01:12:47.898)

You think he’s the next one to commit? Swing it from the people there.

Andrew (01:12:54.35)

There’s not a firm answer, at least not one that’s out there publicly if he’s going to be part of the 2025 class. So he might commit to Ohio State soon because maybe he’s part of the 2025 class. That might be something that we have to consider because J ‘Kim Stewart is the number two overall player in the class. Ohio State could technically have the number one and number two player overall in the class. I know LSU is really involved. I know USC is really involved. Alabama is trying to get in the mix. I mean, this is a player that everybody wants.

Technically, it’s cheating to say, J ‘Keeam Stewart, because he might be a member of the 2025 class. But if that is going to happen, I think he might commit sooner rather than later if, you know, if he wants that to happen. So I’ll say him. I’m also intrigued to give a real answer. I’m also intrigued by Albert Hill, the corner out of Archbishop Hoban. I think that that’s a guy who Ohio State really likes. I think he really likes Ohio State. You wonder if that could be maybe an in -season commitment.

Stephen Means (01:13:27.856)

Let me see.

Andrew (01:13:50.35)

You wonder if that could be something that happens over these next couple of weeks and months, know, September, October type of commitment. think Eli Lee committed in October. I would have to go check that, but you wonder if we could be on the same timeline with, with, with Albert Hill. So I think my cheating answer is going to be J ‘Kim Stewart, just because he might not be a member of the 26 class, but I think the, the actual answer, think one that, you know, Ohio State fans should maybe keep an eye on over these next two months or so is, Albert Hill.

Stephen Means (01:14:18.918)

I think the J ‘Kim Stewart one, if he’s gonna reclassify, that’s gonna be a lot closer to November. Never gonna see that. The last time they had a kid to reclassify in a normal, as normal as reclassifications can be, Sonny Styles, that decision came within a couple of weeks before signing day.

back in 2022 when he reclassified from the 2023 class to be in that 2022 class. So I think we might be a ways off from that, but also the top two players in the 20s class might end up in the 2025 class. Cause I don’t think the Chris Henry Jr staying in the 2026 class is completely set. think I wouldn’t be shocked if he reclassifies either.

I know he was getting asked questions about that when he was on Ohio State’s campus for June camp last month. But OK, get the text 614 -350 -315. If the best two players in the 26th class decide that they want to be done with high school year early, that’s where we’re to go with that information first. Elbert Hill, top cornerback in the 26th class, as Tim Walton after spending a cycle out in the country getting everybody like Devin Sanchez, Naeem Alford. Maybe he gets to come right back to his backyard and get a lead talent once again. But if that happens, the first place we’re going to go is the text 614 -350

and five. Trey Mcnu*tt five star safety committing on Saturday. David Sanders committing in a couple of weeks on August 17th, fall camp starting on Thursday. This is your Tuesday recruiting pod. The last time I think we’re going to go in depth on recruiting between now and game week.

But driving the bus, man, driving the bus tomorrow, it’s your favorite thing. I know you love it. I know you love to drive the bus. I know you like to pick up your keys and get hyperbolic about a player or thing that might happen for Ohio State this year. We already get in touch with people and some people are combining players.

Stephen Means (01:15:59.046)

to come up with the prediction. think it’s pretty cool. You can do that as well, but get the tax six one four three five, all three, three, one five two week free trial three 99 after that. Stefan will be back with us on Wednesday as he gets to pick up his keys and drive the bus for the first time. Andrew, this is your second time driving the bus. This will be like my fourth time driving the bus. So I like driving the bus. I’ve been right. I’ve been wrong, but I’ve been right more than I’ve been wrong. Cause that’s Buckeye talking. That’s Andrew Gillis and I’m Stephen Maitz. We’ll see you on Wednesday.

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